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oils - feeders etc

Post by healdy on Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:32 am

Hi

Just to take my deadbait thought thread into a different direction;

As you know i have been fishing with Mark quite a lot recently and we tend to bang ideas between the two of us - all day long sometimes Wink

Now we have both being doing ok - gettting amongst a few fish with little between us in terms of results [when we are together that is lol]. However Mark always does something different which is to fish a feeder full of chopped fish [sorry if this is a secret mate Wink ]. It certainly doesnt seem to hurt his pick up percentages and the fact that he is able to mash the bits of fish up may realise the fish oils more easily than when i just fish a straight deadbait - albeit i sometimes slash the body for the same reason.

However i want to go a different route but for the same reasons - i want to explore the use of fish oils. Is this something anybody has tried and if so did it improve catch rates. any in particular - i presume to use a carping phrase that they will need to be winterised oils - been looking at the readymade ones you can buy from shops like Eddie Turner and the like.

any experience of using oils - or thoughts?

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Re: oils - feeders etc

Post by Stotty on Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:07 am

I experimented a few years back with injecting oils and I actually found on some waters my catch rate went down. I did very well a while back instead of using my 3 oz weight I used a very large open end feeder and I used chopped fish and bread crumb in it. I would cast it out give it 1 min then twitch it back this worked very well ( in my eyes and one again Iím no expert) the sent of the coped fish and the crumbs worked well as small fish come in for the partials and you have the sent trail in the water for the pike.

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Re: oils - feeders etc

Post by healdy on Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:42 am

stotty

Did you ever come up with a reason why the oils may have had a detrimental effect?

I like the idea of a feeder attracting silver fish and pike [bread and fish combination] however i have concerns about false pick ups when a pike may pick up the feeder [ do you put it on wire for instance to avoid bite offs?].

I would use a pva bag - but this is next to useless until it warms up a little Wink

I do fancy the oil idea but obviously what you have said needs to be taken into consideration.

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Re: oils - feeders etc

Post by Stotty on Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:06 am

I use this rig and I have used it for years now on my ledgered dead bait set up.



As i say I cast out jerk back and I never had the feeder bitten off

I also make up balls of bait the same way this you can catapult out or just ball in

As for the oils I think itís a lot to do with how fresh they are as well I honestly donít know all I know is I fish two rods identical and I had 3 pick ups to 1 on the unoiled one work that out. Now I use ground bait and prick my baits a few times and that works very well for me. I do normally pull something out.

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Re: oils - feeders etc

Post by healdy on Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:26 am

stotty

Your rig is the same as mine - obviously i dont use a feeder but just simply a lead.

If we can get any response it would be good to hear what other people think re oils - is it a usefull trick or an unnecessary complication?

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Re: oils - feeders etc

Post by Stotty on Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:13 am

You want the Kevinís and Woodyís on it mate.


But it is funny I have just looked back at an old copy of pike and predator and there talking about Mooreís haggis oil and how one man swore by it yet the other said he got more runs on the bait without it. So not just me.

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Re: oils - feeders etc

Post by healdy on Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:37 am

stotty

That is fishing isnt it - we all have different experiences which affect how we think and what we do on the bank.

For me - part of my fishing is to try and improve -- therefore i challenge everything and seek the advice or comment from fellow like minded anglers.

since joining this forum i have really felt welcome and part of the community - i just wish a few more would join in and debate / share experiences so we can jointly learn from the experience of the group/community as a whole.

Otherwise i may as well not bother and just try different things on different rods - maybe i will come to the same answers but it will no doubt take longer!!

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Re: oils - feeders etc

Post by Woodchucker on Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:03 pm

Hmmmmmmmmm I have and do use oils when I think the going is going to be hard, I have used the feeder method a few years ago and did ok with it the only problem I could find was that you still need about 3oz of lead to get good bite indication so the feeder ends up weighing 4-5oz (depending what you put in it, if you do try it I would reccomend braid and close range work on still waters. Now the same method on rivers is a different matter, the scent flowing down stream can really work for you.

The only time I now use it is when using none oily baits like trout, smelt.

I thinks its one of those things that gives you confidance so it cant harm Wink

You are a thinking mans angler Healdy, I like it Cool Smoking

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Re: oils - feeders etc

Post by Stotty on Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:45 pm

One again Iím not an expert but like your self I do a lot of thinking with my angling. The years of carp fishing with rigs and making baits maybe?

People that fish with me know I have lots of ideas on fish and feeding once again all the years of keeping them and watching them feed.

At the time I thought it could be the cold I know with carp If you are using high protein baits in cold water temperatures in particular this can seriously reduce your catch rate. The reason for this is very simple. A fish may take 3 days to digest your bait before it feels like feeding again. Meanwhile it is busy not feeding and using energy digesting the bait it has already consumed. Pike donít find pilchards and sardines and sprats naturally in the wild do they?

Once again its just an idea.

Many forms of popular pellets substantially lose their edge in winter owing to their high oil levels Pellets with low oil levels and wheatgerm are great for winter As oil is pretty much insoluble in water low oil pellets and boilies are much more able to draw fish towards your baited area as more water soluble attraction is dispersed more effectively in low water temperatures. Is this the same with pike I fish for them in the cold something to think about is it not?

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Re: oils - feeders etc

Post by mark on Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:14 pm

the way i see it is, what harm can it do. i tend to use a battered fish that has already been used and would otherwise get slung, so thats getting put to good use. also i've noticed when fishing in an area with a few other anglers and maybe 6-8 rods in the area usually the feeder rod gets picked up so i have every confidence in it.
i have found the head section to be very effective due to all the blood. so if you cut the head off some fish then bang it in a feeder. my mate accaisionally spods bits of fish out or throws it in when fishing close. i have too and can't see why anybody wouldn't. sometimes i fish on waters well over 30 - 40 acres and 1 tiny fish doesn't seem to have enough pull to keep my satisfied. i have also never had my feeder picked up or at least never had it bitten off, but my mate was convinced it happened to him.

as for oils i was using them in october and they worked but i don't buy them now as the water is colder and its an extra cost i dont need to pay, i am happy with the feeder and also the weight of the feeder, its a 2oz, square type and fits plenty of fish in it. i don't mind any lads using it or dis-liking it, i like reading points of views even when they clash with mine, its the reason i joined the forum
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Re: oils - feeders etc

Post by billy barbel on Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:31 pm

I use predator plus oil and lamprey oil for pike, i have had a good head of fish on both oils in scotland but not a great deal when i fish english waters, i find that pushing the oil between the skin and the flesh is the best place as it can leak out through the hole used for the needle. I have also made a paste with corn flour starch and the oils to make it thick so the fish can literally be coated with the stuff again differing results. I think some times the oil can attract other fish to your swim whcih in turn attarcts pike so i couldnt be sure it was purely the scent of the oil on its own.
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Re: oils - feeders etc

Post by healdy on Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:31 pm

Mark


Not disagreeing fella - it obviously works . just wondering whether i could improve on it - as you do Wink
didnt realise you use 'battered fish' though lol! lol! prefer that with my chips
Wink


Stotty - know where you are coming from with the oil and cold weather comment - presume that is why people used winterised oils - ie oils which still disperse in cold temps.




Also have obviously been aware of problems carp have with digestion of oil in cold weather - people using low oil pellet and avoiding fishmeals etc - however i had presumed pike may cope better - after all there natural diet contains more oil from the fish they eat even though i agree these wouldnt be as oily as sea baits.


Good food for thought - if i am to use oils it may pay to wait until the water temps warm up and also be sure to use the right oil - we will see.

cheers for the feedback guys


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Re: oils - feeders etc

Post by Stotty on Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:36 pm

As I say itís not black and white itís just my thoughts and what I have found through my fishing and I do a lot of it its not a case of I went once in a month so I can mess about and try things out. But would like Kevins input on this one.

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Re: oils - feeders etc

Post by billy barbel on Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:02 pm

yeah man im scottish everything is fried, sunday dinner wooosh straight in the frier...lovely lol!
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Re: oils - feeders etc

Post by mark on Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:15 pm

hahaha very funny healdy ha thought somebody would mention it when i wrote it.
can't blame you for trying to improve mate its the key to success.

i can say i did have a faze where i stopped using the feeder for a few sessions n the bites seemed to stop too. i cant say it was the feeder as it may have been the conditions etc all i can say is it works and if something boosts your confidence then in turn that will boost your catch rate.

from where i'm standing healdy you have yet to find that little thing that you believe gives you that edge. i'm sure its in the pipeline mate and even better results will follow. you cant deny your doing well so even if you believe you could do better, you should remind yourself you could be doing a lot worse.

maybe its your guide that is getting you all the action Innocent Whistle hahaha
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Re: oils - feeders etc

Post by healdy on Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:21 pm

HaHa

Some call it a guide - others think you are just there to net my fish lol!


Not a problem with the results - just like to kick things around mate - spent my spare time this week reading about oils and different trace materials.

On the bank in the morning - hope the bloody fogs ok - got lost last week even without fog lol!

Nothing complicated - sprats and sardines - though i wil pop one up as well.

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Re: oils - feeders etc

Post by NIDGE MAC on Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:25 pm

good luck buddy.... are you at oaklands?????
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Re: oils - feeders etc

Post by healdy on Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:28 pm

no nidge


Fairburn - first trip.

Good luck yourself - Selby isnt it.


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Re: oils - feeders etc

Post by chief on Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:41 pm

you'd be better with course deads at fairburn mate, trout and lamprey are working for me atm Wink
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Re: oils - feeders etc

Post by healdy on Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:44 pm

cheers chief

My freezer has 10k of a certain boilie - a couple of kilo of sprats and the same in sardines.......

So we will have to see what they make of them lol!


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Re: oils - feeders etc

Post by chief on Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:49 pm

im not saying they wont work matey, its just whats been working for me.
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Re: oils - feeders etc

Post by mark on Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:13 pm

healdy wrote:HaHa

Some call it a guide - others think you are just there to net my fish lol!


Not a problem with the results - just like to kick things around mate - spent my spare time this week reading about oils and different trace materials.

On the bank in the morning - hope the bloody fogs ok - got lost last week even without fog lol!

Nothing complicated - sprats and sardines - though i wil pop one up as well.

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Re: oils - feeders etc

Post by tackle tart on Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:02 am

well i use the old trustered feeder full of mash fish to great success when zandering and also when using deads i all ways stab or slash to allow the natural juices to come out .
in the past i also have tried an array of oils (winterised )which in mine own reuslts have made no difference whats so ever but i don,t think its about whether its works but it it gives you confidence then you,ll use or try it regardless if it changes your catch rate or not .
over the past two season during the winter i,ve been trying a few things with flavours with dead baits for my zandering with a few interesting results with certain flavours in colder water conditions .
this had lead me to pursue this line of think abit further to see whether its coincidents or whether there is actually anything to it.

getting back to the use of oils as i all ready sadi it didn,t make any difference in the catch rate and i now don,t bother at all with them and the use of oils with zandering have seen a massive drop in my catch rate so i don,t use oils at all but i think its an individual choice whether you try them or not but the dispersal of oils through the water will depend greatly on the temp of the water .

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Re: oils - feeders etc

Post by chief on Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:24 am

im not sure on this personally, but i will say that when i cast a dead in generally think it will be at least 30mins-1 hour before any action due to the bait thawing out and rleasing scent. on this note i have a few ideas with oils and mashed fish but im still to try this out.
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Re: oils - feeders etc

Post by mark on Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:41 am

i have had instant runs even with frozen baits, but thats cos i have been luckily to land a bait very close to a pike rather than draw it in through sents
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